While not strictly urban legend material, it does fringe on some
things we have talked about here in the past (100 MPG carbs etc). I've
seen the videos where people claim to get incredible (not the
deliberate use of the word) mileage by modding their cars to create
hyrdogen from water.
I saw this debunking on the frugal newsgroup and just had to share.
While undoubtedly some of our scientists friends coudl eb more
accurate and some of our old hats could be more colorful, I do have to
admire the style used in tearing apart the fantasy. I especially
thought the "just because you read it on a website paragraph was
entertaining.
From: max <betat...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Jun 20, 6:19 am
Subject: Water 4 Gas
To: misc.consumers.frugal-living
In article <ZvudnbPtY8T9pcbVnZ2dnUVZ_qzin...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
"Bob" <m...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> "max" :
> > In article <ESC6k.2868$ul.2255@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, "Lou" <lpog...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > wrote:
> >> "Nicik Name" :
> >> > In simple words, this technology involves putting together
home-made
> >> > devices that use a little electricity out of your car's battery to
> >> > separate water into a gas called HHO (2 Hydrogen + 1 Oxygen). HHO,
> >> > also known as Hydrogen*OxygenT or Hydroxy, burns beautifully and by
so
> >> > doing provides TONS of energy.
> >> Burning this stuff can provide no more energy than that supplied by
the
> >> battery to break down the water. And the battery in turn is charged
by
> >> the
> >> car's engine, which is powered by gasoline. And because no process
is
> >> 100%
> >> efficient, what you can get out at the end is less than you put in at
the
> >> beginning.
> >> In short, this is a losing proposition.
> > not to mention that HHO is about the definition of explosive gas.
> > Frankly, anyone STUPID enough to screw around with this system under
the
> > foolish belief it's going to save them gas is likely to have a bad
> > accident.
> > Even better is the fact that a hydrogen flame radiates in the UV, not
> > the visible spectrum. You can't see a hydrogen flame. (look at the
space
> > shuttle main engines (not the SRBs) sometime) Great way to get hurt
or
> > sunburned or blown up. Stoichiometric Hydrogen/oxygen (H2O) is
> > literally the reference for fuel-air explosive gas mixtures.
> HHO increases mileage simply because an automobile is only about 20-30%
> efficient.
Your next assignment is to make a logical connection between the
elements of the sentence above.
This is like saying Nutrasweet is sweet bacause Lawry's is so salty...
First of all, any expansion engine, regardless of fuel type,
combustion
type, or expansion type is going to be about the same, give or take.
It's called the Carnot efficiency, and there's a hard limit on it.
Doesn't matter if you've got a nuclear power plant, or a jet engine or
a
gasoline/diesel/hydrogen engine. ULtimately you have to get the
energy
out of your system through mechanical means, and there an inviolate
thermodynamic limit to how much of that energy you can harness.
Now, as regards chemical energy. Big Deal. Chemical fuels have
varying
amounts of energy in them. But, except for fossil hydrocarbons and
biofuel, we have to put the energy into those fuels in the first place
to make them into fuels. water is not a fuel. Water is ash. It is the
lowest possible energy, most worn-out endpoint for Hydrogen and Oxygen
by them selves. You can get even more energy out of water using
reactive materials such as reactive metals, but the byproducts are
scary
and you have to put a great deal of energy into making the reactive
metals, so you still lose.
HH0 in and of itself is a great energy _STORAGE_ medium. Just like a
spring is a great mechanical energy storage device. But a spring is
not
fuel. It takes power to wind a spring. So, too, does it take power
to
rip up water into HHO.
If you want to do it with electricity from your house, feel free --
you've invented a more dangerous version of the plug-in electric
hybrid;
maybe it will save you money over plain old gas, i am unintersted in
running the math, but i'm skeptical you'll save any money, although i
suppose it might be possible, since energy costs are tared out
diferently between gasoline/diesel and electricity.
But if yo try to manufacture HHO from power onboard your car, with
power
coming from your gasoline tank... well... you be sure to take a few
tankfuls of data before you start ****ing around so you can come back
and show us all how much better mileage you get. Because to get
better
mileage from an HH0 onboard system, your hydrogen liberation would
have
to be more than 100% efficient and it ain't gonna happen. Of course,
make sure to measure all your other engine parameters too. But
especially miles/gallon over a few tanks.
And if your water cracker is more than 100% efficient, you, sir, will
be
going to Stockholm and claiming your nobel prize for overturning the
First Law of Thermodynamics and single handedly solving all of
humanity's energy problems for all time. We'll have rocket ****ps to
Alpha Centauri in 50 years, traveling at .9c because of you. Cities
floating among the clouds just like in Star Wars.
So go for it.
> If you guys had actually looked on the net at the thousands of people
> who've already done this modification (getting 20-50% more mileage),
would
> you still be advertising your ignorance so blatantly?
> Besides modifying the antiquated, inefficient internal combustion
engine,
> HHO is being used to power efficient welding torches. The flame is very
hot,
> but the unique property of the flame is such that the torch head stays
cool.
sigh. bang. head. on. wall.
> There are many web sites providing free information along with their
kits.
> Simple searches turn up many hits. If you're not handy with tools, and
pay
> someone to do simple things like change the oil, well.. you pay for your
> ignorance and incompetence. But that can change. The more you do, the
more
> you can do.
There are also a great many websites proving that we never landed on
the
moon, that BigFoot is the daughter of the Loch Ness Monster, that
growing marijuana is the key to world hunger, Barack Obama is the
AntiChrist, George Bush is the Anti Christ, HIllary is The Anti
Christ,
Atlantis is actually in the Carribean next to the bermuda triangle and
frogs live in blenders singing songs.
Just because some throbbing forehead moron with a web cam took
pictures
of his engine compartment and some copper tubing does not mean his POS
is working as claimed.
> I drive barely 100 miles per week. But may soon try this modification
just
> for fun. The problems may be: the vehicle's computer may not be "smart"
> enough to adjust to the correct air/fuel mix. And there will be more
> condensation precipitate, perhaps corroding valves and such faster.
So try your stunt with a lawnmower first before you trash your car.
If
you can't make it work with a lawnmower that should be a warning sign
<end>
Hope you enjoy
James "prefers H20 to HHO" Linn
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